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The Lounge What is on Your Mind? vi/emacs against Eclipse (and the likes) as IDE Post 302453840 by anthalamus on Thursday 16th of September 2010 02:03:46 PM
Old 09-16-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo
FWIW, here is our long standing poll on editors:

https://www.unix.com/unix-dummies-que...ryone-use.html
Wow, i'm impressed by the popularity of vi over emacs, never would have thought it was so drastically preferred


Quote:
Originally Posted by Corona688
If your IDE upgrades a version, it may ruin all your projects. If automake upgrades a version, it may decide all your projects are invalid. And when any of these happen you'll have a very hard time abandoning your IDE since you've depended on it instead of learning how to use the simple make utility.

I've had all of these and more happen to me.

Java forces you to write statements like system.class.class.class.class.omg.wtf.bbq.print("hello"). It'd take rain man to use this language without computer-assisted editing. Other languages aren't quite so schizophrenic. That's all well and good until Eclipse breaks down, or upgrades and is no longer able to understand all your projects. Every single IDE I've ever used, including Windows ones, suffers from this problem. Eventually I gave up and just learned how to use make.

The point isn't what features other editors offer, the point is what things they don't do. They don't force me to indent my code the way it wants instead of the way I want. They don't cram useless boilerplate down my throat(nice when you need it, obnoxious when you don't, and often obsolete the instant its released), and never throw in libraries I don't need. They don't puke just because I edited the file with MyFavoriteEditor v3.6.5 instead of 4.0.1 the last time I opened it. They don't blow up when automake breaks compatibility with itself for the 13415152345th time. And I can use them just as well on a remote terminal as a local one(if you want to try that with Eclipse over a laggy satellite link, be my guest. Smilie ) Learning how to write and build things without an IDE will teach you what many mysterious options in your IDE were actually for, too.

Oh. And I can use any language I want. No "plugins" required.

Not that I abhor software assistance in programming. When graphics are available, the GNU Data Display Debugger is very useful. It's all the parts of an IDE I actually want but demands absolutely no control over my projects. When debugging a program from the outside in, strace is also very useful. And of course gdb but that goes without saying.

And lastly, remember that whenever you release a project to the wild, you're demanding that whoever wants to modify it use your coding environment of choice. Not just Eclipse in particular, but a version compatible with the one you were using when you wrote it -- which could be a difference of years if development isn't recent. And if you happen to favor a non-free environment like Codewarrior it gets downright obnoxious. "Please enjoy my free source code! Optional $400 IDE required!"

---------- Post updated at 10:15 AM ---------- Previous update was at 09:52 AM ----------

nano these days has some advanced features which people might not often use, like color syntax highlighting and a full-out regex search/replace with backreferences. It's also designed for a relatively modern PC keyboard, instead of the ADM3A(vi) or the Space Cadet(emacs). I find it quite sufficient. But that's a matter of taste, I guess.
I see your point and agree to an extent however I think you've been pretty unlucky with eclipse..!

I've been using it for 5 years now and only ever encountered a compatibility problem once. I did lose like a day or so, but it really is negligible compared to the amount of time I saved with refactoring and all.

Also we're a team of 4 developers and half of us use eclipse, the other half netbeans. it has never been a problem! we simply don't commit IDE-related files. As for the organization of the project, well it was agreed upon beforehand. Eclipse can be configured in great details and I have never had to give up on a particular feature to enable!

That being said someone brought to my attention the existence of a vi plugin for eclipse, which could possibly be the graal i was looking for. getting the best of both world! since vi seems to be THE editor, i'm excited at the idea of getting it's power on top of that of eclipse.

In all fairness though you're right that java is so.damn.twisted.sometimes() that using an powerful IDE almost becomes a necessity, and that maybe languages with a more friendly syntax may do just fine with vi+make+gbg+etc

Anyway, thanks A LOT for your input, you've raised some really interesting issues!
 

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