UNIX for Dummies Questions & Answers

In my company system engineering is more design- and technology related than the system administration - means they're designing and sizing the systems and underlying technologies and new strategies - eg clustering, virtualization - and they are as well responsible for developing and maintaining software amended to our companies requirements - and the SAs are implementing, building and maintaining the systems.
Since both jobs are very close to each other, its in most cases that the system engineers have been system administrators for a long while before they moved into engineering.

Rgds
zxmaus

I still don't know if I want to do systems administration and then either stay with that or move up to systems engineering, or just go for systems engineering from the start. They both look like fun jobs. What I was thinking of doing though is if I want to do systems administration I'd get a bachelors degree in computer science( and of course learn as much about unix as I can right now) and then when I know enough about unix try and get a position as a system administrator.
If I decided to become a systems engineer though, what my plan for that was was to get a masters of computer science and of course learn as much as I can about Unix, and then try and get a level I systems engineering job. From the information I was able to find there is level I, II, III, IV, and V engineers. Maybe it'd be better to start with Systems Administration though and if I feel like moving up to systems engineering I could? Do you by any chance know how long most people are systems administrators before they become systems engineers? I'm having a really hard time deciding which I want to do I'm a bit concerned about my salary too because I'd like to be making enough to be able to get a nice house out in Colorado Springs. It looks like I need about at least $100k salary to do that though(hopefully the housing market will change though). Which is why I was planning on remaining here in PA and living in a townhouse for probably another 10 - 12 yrs years after I have my degree and have started working. The cost of living is really low here(at least, low for the way the economy is over here in the US) and I could probably save up a down payment for a house in CO while I'm living here. From what I figure though from what most people said, and according to SAGE(which someone here sent me the link to), most Systems Administrators make between $85k and $91k a year here in the US. According to salary.com software engineers(which I'm guessing a Unix Systems Engineer would count as a software engineer) make about $110k... not sure how accurate that is though. Anyways, pretty much what I want is a job that's Unix related that makes a pretty good salary(enough that I get a nice house) and is something I would enjoy doing. and like I said, both of those jobs looks like something I'd enjoy doing.
Thanks again for your help zxmaus!

Anyone who has any more info I'm still open to hearing all I can about these 2 jobs and what they're like

i have a question, which probably no one can accurately answer. but still i'd love to hear your expectations.

i only took up UNIX only this semester.So, its hardly 4months since I first saw the $prompt at the terminal... and this is by far the only only subject that has truly got me interested...UNIX is really fascinating in a way that words cannot describe...Dennis Richie had the right words - "Unix is simple. It just takes a genius to understand its simplicity."
add that to Thomas Edisons' - "genius is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration" -and you get people like me...inspired to learn UNIX, ready to work for it...learn enough to make a career out of it, like many of you have and are happy and satisfied with your jobs. but here is the catch...

keeping in mind the current and near future economic conditions...with the recession and all...interest and willing to work hard or not...will it be as fruitful an endeavour as it was in until recent past..when you got your jobs?...i mean, are the opportunities reducing or will UNIX admins demand be evergreen?

so realistically speaking...UNIX admins...what would the job opportunities be like in the near future say 2years from now,for a Uni under-grad fresh out of college,no experience real-time whatsoever except maybe an internship ...if you think 2years is to long a period to make any kind of projection, consider only 1year...

also, give your projection keeping an average joe in mind...not a UNIX-wiz-genius, because there is always a job market for the cream. I 'd like to see the worst-case scenario.

I have no idea about the US - I can only speak about europe.

Since we're in the middle of a recession, the salaries are pretty down, and a lot of our jobs had been outsourced to cheaper countries, eg India, eastern europe, China, Singapore ... its very difficult to get a job right now when you have some kind of expectations of what you need to earn. This might obviously be better when you're a newbie - but still, open positions are rare, you might get a job when you know the right people, dont even expect a response to your cv.

Best entry is probably Linux since its so easy to get the skills and sufficient training yourself at home - followed by Solaris that is as well available for PC.

But please be aware - having / using Linux at home and being Unix SA in a big company are two very different things. And a mistake made on a production environment because of missing experience can cost your company millions of dollars per hour - so you should be either very careful and doublecheck with someone more experienced what you're going to do than just try and error.

I would always recommend to have some professional training from the Vendor (Sun/IBM/HP) and at least an entry certification before applying for a sysadmin job. Going into engineering without having practiced the OS is not a good idea - you should definitely have reached senior level (5+ years in your OS) knowledge before thinking about ... and even for a normal system administrators position, a solid IT background knowledge (Hardware, Networks and maybe a bit scripting) is recommended ...

Good system administrators will probably always find a job - somewhere. The question is very likely rather what you expect to earn in your job, how mobile are you and how much experience can you bring into your job - but as long as there are computers, there will be SAs ... and the more specific and rare your skills are, the more demand in your area of expertise, the more likely you'll get a well-payed job.

I do not really understand the 1-5 level model - I am aware about Junior SA - SA - Senior SA and SME (special matter expert, as well called level3 - of any special area of expertise - this could probably count as well as systems engineer).

BTW: a software engineer is a developer at a senior level

Kind regards
zxmaus

This comment is spot on. In most cases system engineering is a role which does not even entertain the possibility of entry level positions. It is expected that a person has the practical experience to back up design decisions and the standing and influence to make and drive changes.

Hey,
I was actually going to start with Linux like you said. I want to also try linux from scratch when I get a little more knowledgeable around the command lines. About solaris, I'd want to fool around with that too. Where you said "But please be aware - having / using Linux at home and being Unix SA in a big company are two very different things. And a mistake made on a production environment because of missing experience can cost your company millions of dollars per hour - so you should be either very careful and doublecheck with someone more experienced what you're going to do than just try and error." I don't really know anyone experienced with Unix that I can doublecheck with. So, what exactly do you mean by be very careful? Google how to do stuff before trying it?
Where you said "I would always recommend to have some professional training from the Vendor (Sun/IBM/HP) and at least an entry certification before applying for a sysadmin job." How would I go about getting some professional training from any of those(sun/ibm/hp) and also getting an entry certification?
Sorry for all these questions. I'm a newbie so I'm really lost right now on where to start.
I have an uncle who probably knows a lot about Unix because of his job. I will be seeing him some time in may so he may be able to give me a bit of advice and help me out.
Thanks again for the info!

This was a more generic comment than what you seem to have understood. To borrow a 'trade' term, measure twice, cut once. Make sure that before you do something in the real world that it is the right thing. We all do things to our own systems that we would never consider doing on production systems because all it costs us is a little time if it goes bad. On the other hand that little bit of time is VERY expensive if it happens on mission critical systems or ones where there are a large number of users impacted.

Learning to use and administer your own Linux/Solaris is not the same as being able to deal with the types of issues that can on a large Unix system. As a really simple example a reboot on a pc will take a couple of minutes but a reboot on a large unix system can take a long time ( I have known fully populated SunFire 6900s take an hour or more to reboot )

For training, all the vendors have information about their education services on their websites, you can often find third parties that give adequate if not quite equivalent course.

The vendor websites will also have info on certifications.